Short Sale Tips

Written by Jim the Realtor

March 30, 2010

47 Comments

  1. Jim the Realtor

    Remeber when we used to hear dates by when the lenders were going to unleash their REOs? In 4Q09 I heard the date from a B of A employee wasgoing to be April 1st, and I figured it was another April Fools joke. Now this, from the Irvine Housing Blog:

    I attended a local Building Industry Association conference on Friday 26 March 2010. The west coast manager of real estate owned, Senior Vice President Ken Gaitan, stated that Bank of America, which currently forecloses on 7,500 homes a month nationally, will increase that number to 45,000 homes per month by December of 2010.

    After his surprising statement, two questioners from the audience asked questions to verify the numbers.

    Bank of America is projecting a 600% increase in its already large number of monthly foreclosures.

    This isn’t unsubstantiated rumor; this comes straight from one of the most powerful men in Bank of America’s OREO department.

    Click here for full story

  2. tj & the bear

    600% increase? OUCH! Well, nothing price won’t fix. 🙂

  3. Charlene

    Great tips in the video. Thanks!

  4. CapitalGain

    The increase makes complete sense from a “efficient market” standpoint, and I’d love to see it happen, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

    It would both clear the market and shut the door on rampant short sale fraud.

  5. CA renter

    Bring it on. We desperately need the inventory.

  6. Irene

    As a realtor I have done my share of short sales here in No Ca but I hesitate to do them anymore. I feel they are a mine field and I always wind up paying for my client’s legal consult I just cannot let these people continue with this process without legal advice. The last one had the lender coming back with the lovely option of the bank coming after them for recourse. The attorney told us about the “Merger of Interest Rule” Both loans were made by the same bank but at different times. According to the attorney they are considered one loan. I had not even heard of such a thing. She told them to walk away and the bank would not have recourse on the second since it was the same bank. There are so many ways to get into trouble on these things. I do remember when Jim said… ” the only reason for a short sale is so the realtor can get a commission” I totally believe that. There are so many realtors doing unscrupulous things and putting their clients in a legal quagmire, only to get the commission. These things will be tied up in the courts for the next 10 years. I need to be able to sleep at night.

  7. real estate guy

    Jim great video.thank you for letting people know about all the fraud going on out there.

  8. Kingside

    Irene, the “merger of interest rule” is an interesting theory and is based on a 1992 California decision, Simon v. Superior Court (1992) 4 Cal.App.4th 63.

    Without getting to technical, the decision was based on a bank who originated and held both a first and second mortgage, and foreclosed on the first. The Court held that the bank could not claim recourse status as a sold out junior on the second and a deficiency was barred under CCP 580d, the rule that prevents a bank from seeking a deficieny when it elects to proceed by non-judicial foreclosure, even though the election to foreclose was on the first.

    In modern times, we have all the 80-20 loans that may have been originated by the same lender, but were then subsequently sold off and securitized to different entities, handled by different servicers, and/or administered by different CDO trustees. So whether Simon applies in modern times may be questionable, but it will continue to be argued. Sooner or later we will get a new decision on how the “merger of interest” rule applies to securitized cases, but attorneys will be killing a lot of trees over the issue until then.

  9. François Caron

    Jim, don’t worry so much about the way you look on TV. Your general appearance is actually a marketable asset. Don’t be surprised if an affiliate hires you to do a weekly segment on the local real estate market.

    A 600% increase in monthly foreclosures? Ouch! That’s a lot of free rent! 🙂

  10. Geotpf

    Short sales are such a hassle that I personally would recommend avoiding them-but if there’s currently a lack of REO or standard sales in a particular area, you might have no choice. Hopefully the long-delayed REO flood actually materializes (as indicated by the BOA rep) and the inventory problem goes away so there will soon be no reason to mess around with short sales.

  11. Susie

    “I do remember when Jim said… ” the only reason for a short sale is so the realtor can get a commission” I totally believe that. There are so many realtors doing unscrupulous things and putting their clients in a legal quagmire, only to get the commission. These things will be tied up in the courts for the next 10 years. I need to be able to sleep at night.” (Irene)

    *Heartfelt sigh* At least Jim isn’t the only Realtor with integrity…

  12. Irene

    Thanks Susie!… I really believe that if you are in the San Diego area, you cannot do better than to hire Jim. He truly is an honest man. Such a shame there is not a lot of that going around….. Kingside. Thanks for the clarification. The attorney did say that the only way to actually find out if the second was still held by the bank that owned the first was to let them foreclose. We did get our answer and it indeed was still owned by the same bank. She was trying to tell us that if they accepted the terms of the short sale that they could be shooting themselves in the foot. There was the possibility that the second was owned by the same bank.I really appreciate the insight. You seem to have a wealth of info and I only wish that more realtors did their homework. There is such a need to protect these people and that is what our fiduciary duty is but there again that darned commission gets in the road and it is the only thing they think about.

  13. Waiting to feel the Magic

    From a buyer’s perspective the reason to go after short sales is pricing. Regular sales and even REO sales are not priced that aggressively right now. I believe that one of the biggest factors that pushes prices on short sales down is the massive hassle they are. Unless you’re getting a pretty substantial price break, why even mess with them. OTOH, who knows if a short sale will ever actually close.

    It would be great to see more inventory, because assuming that there aren’t more buyers waiting in the wings, that should help pricing become a bit more aggressive than it has been in the last few months.

  14. real estate guy

    The only reason people are even screwing with shorts sales is the fact they are most of the inventory in certain areas.In my opinion there should be no short sales and the banks should foreclose on every house and sell them to willing buyers.This short sale mess is only prolonging problems and creating a gambleing atmosphere in housing.

  15. shadash

    Jim submitted an offer for me on a REO property. The seller agent wanted $1500 negotiators fee. They also said that there were 3 other offers. (All above mine)

    It’s a great house but you can tell the current “homeowners” are going to try every deadbeat trick in the book to live there as long as possible.

    No problem, my offers on the table. I have $$$ we’ll see what happens.

  16. Susie

    “Jim submitted an offer for me on a REO property”
    (shadash)

    Well, you have the best Realtor in San Diego working for you, so here’s hoping it all works out for you, shadash.

  17. Jinx

    I had to laugh at that NBC short sale video. It looks like an educational video for preschoolers.

  18. Jinx

    Jim, I liked your video. I agree with a previous comment, you’re good on camera, especially when in focus, ha. I wouldn’t be surprised either if a local news channel asks you to do segements. An old SDSU professor of mine, Pat Abbot, is interviewed on the news EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a fire, land slide, earthquake, tsunami alert or any other natural disaster. More power to you.

  19. Genius

    You surprise me shadash, but good luck!

  20. CV Asian

    “You surprise me shadash, but good luck!”

    Looks like slowly people are jumping of the permabear wagon and buying. That is what I have been noticing lately on this blog and others I frequent.

  21. AC

    As a buyer I despise short sales! I spent months putting in offers on SS and either never heard back from the banks or was strung along for months and then got a no. I put an offer of 275k on one house, it was accepted by the sellers (subject to bank approval) and two months later the bank said they wanted 300k, 25k more than what I offered. It was in escrow 4 months before for that amount, but it fell through when the buyers could no get financing because the appraisal was less than 300k. I countered back with 285k (10k more than my original offer), that was the high end of the appraisal amount. The bank said no, it wasn’t enough money and auctioned off the house the next day, getting 265k for it!!!!

    After that I avoided short sales and found a better house being sold at a realistic price by an private investor company (regular sale). No games or banks who think it’s worth more than the market dictates. The house was listed on Friday, I put the offer in on Saturday and we were in escrow by Monday afternoon. It took seeing 40 houses to finally get my dream house!

  22. AC

    BTW, although I didn’t use Jim to buy my house (because I was house hunting in Temecula), I really appreciate his blog and it has helped me so much. I visit here daily and have for over a year. Thanks Jim for all the advice and being “real” with us buyers!

  23. shadash

    Genius,

    The price was right. (200k off peak) When numbers make sense it’s time to consider buying again. I’m still against all the gov/bank/realtor shenanigans. But as Jim has stated before there’s nothing price won’t fix.

    CV Asian,

    I was never on a “permabear wagon”. Numbers didn’t make sense before. Now prices are starting to come down. The deadbeats are beginning to get flushed out of their debt bubble safety zone.

    I anticipate prices to continue to slowly fall for a while. What seems cheap today may be considered expensive in the future. Time to start lowballing and see what if anything sticks.

  24. osidebuyer

    good luck shadash, let us know how it goes. I forgot, have you mentioned where you’re looking?

  25. François Caron

    Jim, you do a much better job. You don’t resort to playing with dolls in order to explain things or get your point across.

    Shadash, if the seller agent says there are better offers ahead of yours, why did they even bother to call you back? I have this feeling they’re trying to extract more money out of you.

    I still wish you good luck Shadash. Just don’t let them take you to the cleaners.

  26. Jeeman

    That segment was pretty poor because of the dolls. It just seemed amateurish. I’ve corresponded with Kelly a couple times a few years back, and she is very intelligent. That anchor didn’t do that interview very much justice.

  27. Myriad

    Jim, just closed escrow on short sale. Surprising, it went very quickly – Jan 13 offer, just closed yesterday. 1st + 2nd mortgage didn’t counteroffer, but the 2nd wanted additional money.

    Lots of waiting, then a rush to close escrow in 2 weeks. I would I got really lucky on this purchase (regarding timing, price, short sale process duration,etc), but I’ve been looking for a while also.

  28. Waiting to feel the magic

    Question: In the scenario that AC described in entry #22 above where the bank turned down a SS offer for $275k and then sells it at auction (I assume trustee’s sale?) for $265k, did the bank actually clear more money because there were no realtor commissions and possibly no juniors to payoff?

  29. dacounselor

    Re the merger of interest rule, lets’ be clear that with 80/20 loans, we are talking about purchase money 100% financed deals where the Simon case isn’t on going to be point – can’t get around the non-recourse aspect of purchase money and the protection against a deficiency action. In any event, whether you have an 80/20 purchase money deal with the same or different lenders, no one should ever sign anything that would provide recourse to the lender.

    Simon is relevant to anyone who has a post-purchase HELOC/2nd owned by the same entity as their 1st. A single owner can probably avoid being “Simon’d” by selling off the 2nd before foreclosing non-judicially on the 1st.

    Irene you are right about the mine-field aspect of real estate deals in today’s environment. One unknowing mis-step can be very costly.

  30. Kingside

    Dacounsler,

    I have seen some 80-20s that were refis. The wall street loan feeder firms and underwriters didn’t much care whether it was purchase money or refi.

    And many of the 80-20 purchase loans were investment, not 1-4 owner occupieds, where CCP 580b anti-deficiency protection doesn’t apply.

    And I do think it is a debatable point whether a lender/assignee can avoid Simon by selling off/taking an assignment of the second. The securitization fiasco gives rise to some very good policy arguments in favor of the borrower.

  31. kelly bennett

    hey folks, thanks to those of you who watched the NBC clip, and thanks for your comments. As always, Jim kills it with explanations of all of the other pitfalls and tips he pointed out here.

    I know, the dolls were a bit silly. But actually, if I’ve made short sales understandable to preschoolers, I’ve done my job for these SD Explained segments — which are geared toward folks who’ve been sitting out the topic.

    I’m shocked how many people (unlike all of you folks with your RE savvy) still didn’t know the basics of what a short sale even is! That’s even after the years of short sales being in the headlines. Hence the unadorned, simple rundown of the building blocks.

    So, clearly not for everyone. But that’s why we can all hang out on JtR’s blog, right?

    kb

  32. shadash

    Kelly,

    You could have at the very least put together a powerpoint presentation.

    The dolls just made you look stupid.

  33. dacounselor

    Good points Kingside. In any event for the average Joe underwater homeowner with original loan(s) the key point is not to enter into any short sale agreement that would turn a non-recourse loan into a recourse obligation. For those who have refied, I believe there may be some case law out there that may support the argument that a no-cash-out refi does not remove the protection afforded by the anti-deficiency statute; ie the refi is boot-strapped into non-recourse status. I don’t recall it being clear cut but I do recall there being some basis for that argument.

  34. Anonymous

    shadash that’s uncalled for. A little civility please!

  35. Timeye

    Jim-

    I came across this SHORT SALE today in Waters End:
    6961 WATERS END, Carlsbad, CA 92011

    890K

    Comments:
    Short sale! Seller firm at this price. Serious buyers only. Contact out-of-state seller only for showings. Gorgeous home west of i-5. Gated community. Walking distance to the beach. Real wood flooring on first floor. Wood plantation shutters throughout. Stainless steel appliances.

    How could a “seller” be firm at this price when that would be determined by the bank. I know this neighborhood and that price is outrageous. Could you comment on this?

  36. shadash

    Anonymous,

    Maybe I was a little harsh. But honestly, who is going to take financial advice from grown women playing with dolls?

  37. Irene

    Dacounselor and Kingside…. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your input. There are so many nuances with these transactions that they should only be handled by an attorney . We all know that Jim knows what he is doing but 99% of realtors do not have a clue and they don’t go after the knowledge that is needed to keep these people out of trouble down the road.
    Please keep letting us pick your brains for free.
    Thanks!

  38. Jinx

    Sorry about the preschool comment Kelly…It’s just that my son’s preschool has the exact same dolls! I realize that you have to “dumb it down” for the public.

  39. François Caron

    “…if I’ve made short sales understandable to preschoolers…”

    Kelly, that’s the problem. We’re not preschoolers. We’re adults. We can handle a PowerPoint or even a whiteboard presentation. We don’t need to be patronized by childish gimmicks.

    Yes, Shadash’s comment about the dolls making you look stupid was harsh, but he was right! And unfortunately, the dolls also told the audience that you believed they were stupid as well even though that wasn’t your original intention.

    This is why so many of us have fled conventional television and found refuge on the Internet. We can find people there, like Jim, who can properly explain things to us at a more reasonable intellectual level. There’s nothing more refreshing than to watch a video that, regardless of the subject matters, treats you like an adult. It’s a concept that conventional television has simply forgotten a very long time ago.

  40. Jim the Realtor

    Give her a break – it’s NBC who insists on dumbing down the presentation. The series is called San Diego Explained, it’s meant for those who don’t have a clue. If anything, me and my comment was out of place, because there wasn’t any direct connection to the doll thing.

  41. doughboy

    Jim,

    You are skinny Jim!

    Let the people know your diet and exercise tips!

  42. Art Eclectic

    Francois – you have to remember that the average adult has a 9th grade reading and comprehension level. Those of us who matured beyond that point have indeed abandoned television in droves. I refuse to watch televised news because I don’t want to be TOLD what to think about a particular piece of news. I’ll determine for myself whether it is good or bad. The point of television is to keep you engaged so that you watch the commercials – you might think you are paying for television through your bill, but the advertisers are paying for the television. You’re just paying for the feed connected to your house. Television exists to sell you stuff.

  43. François Caron

    Art Electric, I’m fully aware of the purpose of television and its commercials. I’m launching my own cable television channel here in Canada. I just feel that the television audience should be treated with a minimum amount of respect regardless of their actual level of education. They might not be all college or university graduates, but it doesn’t mean they’re complete idiots either. Broadcasters really need to start giving their television audience the benefit of the doubt.

    I’m sorry if I’m ruffling a few feathers here, but this is an extremely important issue for me. Even Canadian television isn’t immune to the excessive dumbing down of its audience. All I’m hoping is that I can make a positive difference with my channel, just like Jim is accomplishing with his videos.

  44. Jeeman

    Ok, ppl are going overboard with the doll insults. I believe it was NBC who pushed that, not Kelly.

    Kelly has a point, though…alot of people are not going to understand this stuff very quickly. I see eyes glaze over when I dumb down my explanations to 3rd grader level.

    However, I do agree that a powerpoint would have been better. Stick figures would have gotten the point across better, IMO.

  45. The Blur

    The dolls. Not good.

  46. PJ

    I had to watch this video twice because your reaction to your 15 seconds of fame was just too cute. You do have charisma Jim the Realtor.

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